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Post by Thy Dungyeon Maestyr on Oct 12, 2013 3:51:13 GMT -8
In the book by the NaNoWriMo guy Chris Baty, he suggests lists enumerating the things you love and hate about stories you consume - novels, movies, whatever. He calls these lists Magna Cartas. Want to post yours here? Talk about ways you differ from other folks? Go ahead...
The idea is that you can easily come up with ideas you think would be good to write, but that include things you are totally annoyed by, turning your writing into a drudge. For example. if you think of something clever or important sounding about a depressing topic. You'd be proud to have written it, but it's not the sort of thing you'd ever read, and writing it is totally unpleasant. Ya dig?
So know what you like and what you don't.
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Post by Thy Dungyeon Maestyr on Oct 12, 2013 4:18:11 GMT -8
Kelly's Magna Cartas:
Likes: Witty characters Survival horror Ambiguous or inhuman enemies Short form / not long Simple language Short chapters Vivid description, but not too dry Makeovers, fashion Descriptions of objects or environments Identifiable characters - well conceived characterization (as opposed to action or movement) Original idioms / clever use of neologisms Apt parody Zaniness Suspense - dread/horror, readers know what characters do not Mysteries Walking around interesting locations Lovable, funny characters and conversations Charming romance Romance beginning or re-beginning Monsters Freaks The supernatural Cute animals / pets Ghosts
Dislikes: Characters too realistic Characters slow to adjust Red herrings Unnecessary information Overlong exposition Dwelling on character attractiveness Graphic sex / wieners Creepy rapers Sexual violence Work Self-important / "complex" characters Scary animals Prison Too much conversation Cars / vehicles / action Courtrooms Professional settings Judgements Crime stories Shaming Embarrassment comedy Gross-outs People embarrassed or upset Stories with mostly children, or featuring babies Rich people Extravagance Heavy political topics (environmentalism etc) Things about war / global strife Racism / ignorance - even in villains Inscrutable characters Too long Too dry in description Too many enemies Too much relationship strife
Christopher's:
Likes: Guns Kung fu Sexy stuff Spaceships Giant robots Magical creatures Pageantry Birds Irreverence - Satan stuff, blasphemy Parody comedy Two-fisted dialogue Coolness Motivated characters Likable characters - good and bad Movement and action (Timur Bekmambetov style) Diversity
Dislikes: Overlong bad romance arcs Realism in people's home lives / vérité Unstoppable evil Corruption of the good Miserable life / film festival movies Tedious troop movement stuff ("Record of Lodoss War" style) Shithouse philosophy ("Ghost in the Shell" or "Waking Life" style) Gender normative rom-com War stuff played straight Architectural jargon Embarrassment comedy Humiliation / shame Protagonists are horrible fuckers Folksy shit Tedious action Rich or middle class lives Extended bondage scenarios Misogyny and injustice Ineffectual heroes ("The Dark Knight" style) The good guy did it
Don't take this as a commandment to you guys. Let us know what you like or dislike in the entertainment you pursue. I notice there's a bit of contradiction in mine - I like giant robots, but war stuff bores me, and where else you gonna see them robots? I think it's all about how it's played. Have your war, but keep the focus individual, and don't let it get dreary and shitty, like a real war would be.
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Post by ∆§Indea§∆ on Oct 12, 2013 5:40:06 GMT -8
Here's mine, there are probably things I've left out or forgotten but you get the gist. Likes: Character driven plot Gutsy characters Developed Friendships Likeable characters both bad and good Tell it like it is Flawed characters Challenging conventions Shades of Grey ( no not 50 ) Philosophy Redemption Twists Humor Challenging ideas Supernatural horror Interesting descriptions Fantasy genre Well written dialogue Psychological Tongue in cheek Trilogies/series New worlds Believable romance Originality Dark Satisfying endings Dislikes: One-dimensional Characters Soppy stories Over description of landscape Miserable stories Wordy beginnings Princesses ( Characters just there to be saved) Cliché Prophecies Taking things too seriously Cop outs Sloppy writing (If you're going to create new laws/history stick to it) War All action no character development Easy defeat of enemies Misogyny, racism and that kind of crap Gutsy characters who soften when they meet 'the one' Self-important writing Shock Schlock ( writing something just for shock value) Selling normative relationships ( For example You're not leading a fulfilling life unless your married/coupled) Wise old men/ Wizened old crones (unless it's a parody). Obvious plot keys 'Hidden' moral stories/ Religion selling ( Charmed for example)
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DKender
Only One Skeleton has the Power to Control both Life and Death, Light and Dark, Words and Blank Space, Our Humble Lives Continue Only by the Grace and Magnanimity of This Skeleton
Nay, let us walk from fire unto firey skeleton ...
Posts: 9,204
Gender: Unknown Skeleton
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Post by DKender on Oct 12, 2013 16:48:01 GMT -8
A lot of my loves and hates have already been listed. Here are a few of mine, off the top of my head.
Love:
The ocean being spooky Original/unique monsters Realistic nerdy protagonists Relatable eccentrics The surreal macabre Scholarly and/or artistic characters Strangeness in a contemporary setting Alien geometries Closed-room mysteries w/o professional crime-solver Chilling atmosphere Well-developed, diverse characters Healthy relationships (friendship/family/romantic/etc)
Hate:
Silly misunderstandings Women in refrigerators syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators) Purple prose Political thrillers/political anything Period pieces (it's fine if the story happens to take place 200 years ago but doesn't dwell on how different everything was) Steampunk (just not my thing) Genetic mutation = magic Deus ex machina Chosen ones A bunch of stuff you guys listed, such as sexual violence/protagonists are horrible fuckers/stereotypes/and so on
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Post by Thy Dungyeon Maestyr on Oct 12, 2013 18:10:33 GMT -8
Talking about hates is often more fun than likes. As story begins to percolate in mine head, lemme think about the ways it may annoy you guys: Elements may be melodramatic, landscape overdescribed, clichés (thinly hidden under genre soup), self-important writing (I am ever the hypocrite), purple prose (to the extent possible at speed), and genetic mutation = magic (future guys mutated by magic radiations get psychic powers). And too much action and global strife for Kelly too.
I'll get more specific about my ideas in another thread...
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Post by Dr. Jar on Oct 12, 2013 18:31:54 GMT -8
Since this is trendy and I talked about it at length with Deek-
Love: Well-written and interesting characters Diverse female characters (in appearances and personalities) Complex but unified plot lines Interesting alien or fantasy species with well thought out physiologies and behaviors Interesting and well developed magic Interesting and well developed cultures and backgrounds that are well thought out. Stories that teach me something about the real world/a subject in some factual way Themes that relate to the real world in some important way Female characters older than 35 Non-villainous female characters who are described as being either large, ugly or plain Well-researched animal characters Science fiction, fantasy or an interesting suburban setting At least one likable, or lovable character Strangeness and good atmosphere Strong and well-developed friendships Character-driven stories Heros with unusual goals Character development and completion of personal story arcs for characters
Dislikes: Overly dark stories Weak characters/poorly written characters Antiheros-I prefer to find something likeable in my main characters Intentionally offensive stories or humor Situational awkwardness usually meant to be funny Poorly researched or shallow/ripoff worlds, cultures and magic "Bottomless magic syndrome" Every female character being attractive syndrome Misogynistic/sexist stories Rape, especially when used more than once/to sell the grittiness of a story or "develop" a character Being able to predict every step in a story- Using cliches is ok as long as they are developed in a unique way Harm to animals or small children for emotionally manipulative storytelling reasons. Woman in refrigerator syndrome Poorly written animal characters/ villianization of real life animals
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Post by ∆§Indea§∆ on Oct 12, 2013 18:45:24 GMT -8
Like Deek, there are definitley bits in the other lists of likes/dislikes that I'd agree with. Heroes with unusual goals is a good one, I think a bad guy with an odd goal is fun too. Stuff I'd disagree with would be: Like Chris I don't mind genetic mutation = super powers. I don't mind well written steampunk either. I like a well written weak character, it annoys me when a character is infallible or a moral rock. I think it's better when a weak character surprises everyone by showing strength. I guess it all depends on your definition of weak. I also love a good anti-hero, situational awkwardness is good too as long as it isn't shaming anyone. I like being purposefully offended sometimes too.
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Post by Dr. Jar on Oct 12, 2013 18:48:58 GMT -8
∆§Indea§∆= By weak I meant poorly written, I'm fine with characters not being powerful. In general I prefer to like at least one of my main characters and I've not been pleased by the general trend to write characters "darker" because that's somehow better. But then again that's nothing new to me since I've been reading "dark" stories since before it was cool like a literary hipster, so to me it's kind of a cliche rather than being interesting or refreshing or anything like that. The others are matters of taste.
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Post by ∆§Indea§∆ on Oct 12, 2013 18:58:17 GMT -8
Hmmm maybe, I was reading some pretty dark literature from a young age but I still prefer a little edge to a character. Not if they're all bad or poorly written of course. But then a cliched character is a cliched character whether they're an anti-hero or white knight. Are you saying I have poor taste?
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Post by Dr. Jar on Oct 12, 2013 18:59:43 GMT -8
On the contrary, you're delicious.
No, I feel awkward watching other people be awkward, and after I was a teenager I got tired of things being offensive. Being offensive is easy, being tasteful and interesting is hard.
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Post by ∆§Indea§∆ on Oct 12, 2013 19:07:41 GMT -8
Hahaha ;D.
There's Jackass/Good luck Chuck offensive though which I hate and then offensive in a way that challenges the way you think about things. Or that parodies popular culture and that love of stupid offensive.
EDIT: Early Ali G is a great example of intelligently offensive.
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Post by Dr. Jar on Oct 12, 2013 19:13:18 GMT -8
∆§Indea§∆= I think I prefer things that don't feel either meanspirited or a crude attempt to grab attention by being obnoxious and trying to offend a particular crowd of people. Cultural parody and gentle ribbing I accept. You're free to like countercultural mayhem but I'm just not a fan, I start to feel offended even if I'm not in the group in question (Unless they are someone like the Nazi party or the Westboro Baptist Church, then they're fair game)
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DKender
Only One Skeleton has the Power to Control both Life and Death, Light and Dark, Words and Blank Space, Our Humble Lives Continue Only by the Grace and Magnanimity of This Skeleton
Nay, let us walk from fire unto firey skeleton ...
Posts: 9,204
Gender: Unknown Skeleton
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Post by DKender on Oct 12, 2013 19:39:36 GMT -8
Here is a more detailed explanation of my feelings about genetic mutations and the fantastic:
In a magic world, or even not-quite-reality world, genetic mutations causing magical powers is cool. For example, if a mutation produced fire breathing and shapeshifting in Enchanted Dragon Land, I wouldn't bat an eye, because the laws of that fictional universe are supposed to be different than ours.
When an author establishes that their story occurs in the real world, though, I'm less forgiving. Mutation = can control the weather bothers me because I tend to obsess over how a leaky enzyme/unique protein/over-expressed gene product/whathaveyou would allow a human to summon rainclouds. In a recent movie (cough) the healing powers of a genetic mutation were sucked out of one person (presumably permanently) and transferred to another, like the mutation was a magical amulet. The bad guy really should have investigated gene therapy. I guess I just find the subject so interesting that I'm sad when people don't want to research it for their stories.
That said, in science fiction, mutation = psychic powers doesn't bother me, since psychic receptiveness is probably a bodily thing. Fish can sense electrical currents, so maybe these humans are picking up on brainwaves in a similar manner. That's enough of an explanation for me!
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Post by Dr. Jar on Oct 12, 2013 19:42:31 GMT -8
DKender= I think I agree with that assessment, and I find it much harder to believe silly science when it is supposed to be within the real world. Also for you, probably super depressing because gene therapy/genetics is so horribadly misused in movies.
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Post by Dr. Maneep Pamplemousse on Oct 12, 2013 19:44:29 GMT -8
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